We’re uncomfortably aware of a quite recent flaming episode, and they’ve happened in the past too.
Most of us agree on what’s proper, although it seems to be essentially a combination of common sense plus courtesy and “gentlemen’s agreement”, with occasional reminders – or stronger action – if necessary from Pavel and/or the mods.
Do we have posted anywhere here an official set of Terms of Service, that we can refer folks to when problems arise? They’re pretty standard (at least in that they’re posted prominently somewhere) just about everywhere else I go, but I’ll be damned if I can find them anywhere here.
Thanks - I’d already seen that one back when you first posted it (unless, of course, the link’s wrong).
Part of the problem here is that our board setup is rather unusual. As you probably know, on most boards there’s a forum right up at the top of the “home” or main list for admin announcements and similar items, and typically Terms of Service (or a link to a separate page with them) is one of the very first sticky-and-locked topics there.
'Twould be nice, of course, if we could get by with nothing more than common courtesy and respect – but alas, we’re in the real world, and sometimes it does unfortunately become necessary to point out – and if necessary enforce – the rules.
Pavel’s post was certainly a good solid starting point for what I had in mind. But it’s in a rather out-of-the-way location for someone who’s quickly scanning the main list, and in particular is unlikely to be spotted simply because it’s in a more or less unrelated topic that he specifically had to step into to clean up.
When we added “Off-topic” it wound up at the bottom of the main list, which is fair enough. But surely YaBB must permit adding new forums at the top as well, and that’s the obvious place for a “Notices and Announcements” sort of thing. And if that’s set up as sticky-and-locked, it wouldn’t even need moderated.
So hopefully Pavel and/or whoever will see this (I’m too modest to bother IM-ing him or, say, Vlk) and think about it.
If you think it would help, then I can put Pavel's thread at the top of the Off Topic and lock it.
Unfortunately the offender probably doesn't care what you post as long as he/she gets their 2cents worth in. In most cases all they want to do is disrupt the forum anyway.
True enough, Bob. But if we have clearly posted rules (most places like this they’re called Terms of Service) then Pavel plus anyone he designates can if necessary cut them short or even ban them for flagrant violation of the TOS.
While I don’t always agree with the policies over at Wilders (Paul W. likes to run a very tight ship), they do clearly warn that not only will flagrant violators have their membership-registrations cancelled, but all postings the person ever made will be deleted.
Yes, I agree with you. THOSE users will do what they want no matter what until they get kicked off.
Mike,
Pavel has that authority now to ban users, but the policy seems a bit too liberal and therefore users do as they wish.
I have no control over that other than what I can do on the Off Topic (which already caused me to get my wrist slapped once or twice… ;D)
Maybe you should PM Pavel and make your ideas known to him. He may decide to come up with some guidelines that are more clearly spelled out.
OK, here is what I think… Sometimes it really make me sick when I see the language that people are alowed to use in these forums. They come in here for the first time, everyone in these forums wish them warm welcome, like we always do, and as soon as they start to post - bam… Flaming, cursing and nothing good. I’ve seen messages like this one few times:
"Hello, I just installed avast! and in the beginning it was great. Now I'm experiencing so much problems, my hard disk is so slow, my icons changed colors without any reason, my PC won't shut down as fast as it does before... I'm disapointed and I've never seen such messy product, so I just switched to Norton... I hate avast!"
Common, that doesn’t sound like constructive comment at all. If someone says different, it’s a fib…
He didn’t even ask for help, he just posted in forums to let us know that this antivirus sucks, and all he expected from us was to reply to his post, so that way he would be able to start with flame…
Sometimes it’s really sad, and I mean REALLY, REALLY sad, how those that are responsible for keeping peace in these forums, like to take neutral position… Common, we are not Swiss… they don’t wanna loose potential customers or something else maybe that I can not understand… but, that’s OK… keep those with bad language, those who are not able to make friendships and to be of any good to anyone in these forums, but only to start flaming and abuse everyone who doesn’t think like they do, and let those who love these people, this software and atmosphere around here, leave these forums like they never existed… no matter they helped alot in any field, no one wants to see that. And don’t tell me those people brings us constructive comments by talking bad things about avast! Open your eyes people… just take a look at other forums. People are getting banned out of forums for much less. No one is saying we have to abuse our privileges like someone said it once, and keep his friend’s side even if he is not right that particular time, but some boundaries must be set. Few, just few people helped me few times, even my intetions were good and nothing else but good, I was defending avast! and I was defending common sense.
People don’t like to feel alone and abandoned, especially from closest friends…
Sometimes the frustration level gets quite high after an install doesn’t seem to work. I installed some security progs on a friends computer the other day. Spent a couple of hours at it. She calls me up a day later and says she sent it all to the recycle bin because she couldn’t get her emails. She was blaming me! I told her she was on her own from now on. We have since resumed talking but it left a bitter taste. WE ALL MUST BE TOLERANT OF THE NEW PEOPLE, DESPITE THEIR FLAMING. Not always an easy thing to do.
let me just add something to this topic: all of you forum veterans are really very nice people loyal to avast. However, from time to time I have the feeling that your fidelity is somewhat exagerated or annoying to the newbies. avast is not perfect and when someone posts a new topic that this or that does not work as it should, there’s a big chance that he/she is actually right. At least on his/her HW/SW configuration.
Therefore, I’d like to ask everybody for refraining from answers that suggest the user is basically doing it wrong (unless it is obviously the case). Please note that the forum rank does not reflect the actual expertise of the user – even if he/she is an absolute newbie on the forum, his/her knowledge of the matter can actually be vast…
In the purely technical threads, it may be also worth asking yourself: do I really know the answer? Or is the stuff I’m going to post really relevant? If not, it’s usually better idea to not respond – otherwise the threads grow indefinitely and are very hard to navigate for the original posters.
Please note that the forum rank does not reflect the actual expertise of the user -- even if he/she is an absolute newbie on the forum, his/her knowledge of the matter can actually be vast...
I think that the following referenced thread pretty much proves that point.
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=6006;start=0
Ok, so I put very simple forum policy into the special Topic in this forum - it is sticky so it will be on top of the list all the time. I have also added a button into the top of the page which points to it - so it is accessible from all forum pages
All you said is OK, but c’mon Vlk… to be able to post dead disfigured body, blood and bones all around, you must be sick in the brain. You all know what I’m talking about. Putting line in his signature: “Support the war on forum terrorism and WMD (Weapons of Message-board Destruction)” tells you everything about that user. He called me Osamma Bin Craftec few times. Is that language that you will allow in these forums ? If it is, I’ll just leave, like many others I believe. No harm done, anyway, no one needs someone “whose security knowledge level is not so high”. He is not here to support or just comment on this product. And what war he is talking about ? There is no room in these forums for any kind of war or weapons. But, of course it’s much easier to pretend we didn’t see that…
Quote by Vlk:
...avast is not perfect and when someone posts a new topic...
True Vlk, but we’re here to try to make it even better, not to blame it all the time… we must try to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and not to speak as everything is black and pointless…
I’m here to speak peacefully, to make new friends, to contribute this software if I can somehow… no one can tell me that my knowledge evel isn’t good enough. Don’t make me search and post all those posts where I solved some people’s problems where no one knew the answer. I’m not the cleverest one and I know it. I never tried to present myself as I am one. But, I know that 100 people is much clever than one person. That’s why we have to work like one big being, great society, unity, whatever… but, I’m sure I contributed helping newbies in many cases.
Pavel - thing that you did with FORUM POLICY button is GREAT ! Something so useful that it’s not easy to describe. Now, no one can say he didn’t know about posting large avatars or pictures in signatures among the other things mentioned in that thread. That way, no one have to jump into possible conflicts with forum members (like I did, but it wasn’t my intention to make someone stupid or to start flaming, it should be clear to everybody), because no one have to alarm them about their large avatars… now, all they have to do is read Forum rules.
As for exagerant regulars, I would have to ask if you have confidence in your product?
I use it, currently the home edition, but I am seriously considering buying the pro version. I am a college student, I can get a little discount and I appreciate Avast allowing me some time to get to know it before buying it.
I don’t think being loyal to a product that is innovative, creative and gracious is being an extremist. Look at other Antivirus’s what do they do for their customers. NOTHING, or nothing much.
Having a fan base is what keeps this forum alive and what gets avast recognition on the net and other places.
I wrote a speech concerning spyware and gave it before an auditorium full of students. I made up a flier telling how to fight spyware and on the back of the flier I put recommended software I placed Avast as my antivirus of choice and told the students that it had a trial period, a free version, and a pay version. I made up 100 of those fliers and at the end I only had a few left.
I am proud to be using avast, I tell everyone I know about it and have converted a great deal of people.
LOYAL customers are GOOD, crappy people who come here to b|t<h and leave are BAD. People who attack your LOYAL customers are bad. Remember it is the few of us who are exgerant regulars that speak loudly for your product!
Simple answer: as this forum called the “official avast support forum” the point is to provide help even for users with crappy manners. Some people (most I guess) behave nicely, some do not. That’s the reality. But the destiny of the support staff is to try to support both. It’s just not possible to ignore those people (especially if these are paying customers) - or, argue with them.
