Remembering Those....

system · 2007-04-20T18:47:16.000Z

tednelly…thanks-but this thread has to do with the virginia tech incident that happened this week :
thanks for the kind words about my fellow brothers in arms and others anyways

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g86/drhayden1/mccloskey.jpg

polonus · 2007-04-20T21:17:44.000Z

Hi drhayden1,

There are a few remarks we can make here. The perpetrator was a well trained marksman, there were links between this institute and DARPA, the man was under the influence of mind control (years of prescribed drugs, and without it during the weekend, why always these things happen on a Monday?, altered by playing violent online games?), would not surprise me as this will be used as a form of attack on the Second Amendment. But striking is that all these violent eruptions are not led back to psychotropic drugs and what it does to people in the long run turning them into dangerous zombies, these connections are almost always hushed up.

polonus

OrangeCrate · 2007-04-20T22:40:23.000Z

drhayden1 post:1:

Seeing and doing horrors as a Marine in Nam…

I think we’ve had a conversation about this before…

http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=21979.msg182964;topicseen

drhayden1 post:6:

…but this thread has to do with the Virginia Tech incident that happened this week…

Staying on topic would be good thing.

system · 2007-04-21T05:46:59.000Z

this thread i started was about the troubled ordeal at virginia tech not my troubled ordeal in nam :‘(
conversation in the past or whatever-what is that supposed to do to me-i know what i did and that’s all that matters-i did my part proudly
you have no right to question my service and should keep your opinions and etc. to yourself :’(
does it really matter orangecrate :
have a heart…this is not computers and such we are talking about-this is human life and their problems
no more will i say on this matter-i am a human and i have a heart
god bless everyone in these troubled times this world is going through

Marc57 · 2007-04-21T06:06:23.000Z

OrangeCrate post:8:

I think we’ve had a conversation about this before…

http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=21979.msg182964;topicseen

Yes, And and it’s also NONE of your concern.

On topic: A Day of Mourning for Virginia Tech Shooting Victims

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,267300,00.html

system · 2007-04-21T09:50:26.000Z

nice link…thanks marc

polonus · 2007-04-21T11:53:05.000Z

Hi Dan,

It seems that some are so off-topic even in this general thread that it seems they do not know what the subject is really about. Why post here then? I think this has to do with the fact that being modest or open-minded these days, is explained away as a form of personal weakness. And in order not to show one’s insecurity it is considered the best policy to look for weakness in others to feel any better themselves.
This attitude is very strong for instance in my and your country, and it came in during the last ten years: ego-centrism prevails over subtlety and opening up to listening to what the needs of others are.
Just an example where all this can lead to:
To dreadful things in this world . This is why Rebellian child-soldiers in Uganda for instance have to bite their actual brothers and sisters to death, how can you think this up really as a normal human being, as a form of initiation, so they can be used without worrying that they will go home and do the evil master’s bidding. The evil master thinks in his arrogance he is living according to the rules of the Bible. Nobody seems to care a hoot, and nobody seems to lend an ear. That is why we live in such a world full of monsters and things too sinister to contemplate.

polonus

system · 2007-04-21T12:07:06.000Z

scary world we live in my friend-even though what i have done and been through-i try to see the good in everything and try to do my best in everything that is right-even though it is hard sometimes-keep love and faith in your heart and the world will seem better even though it is going through bad times right now

system · 2007-04-21T13:20:19.000Z

My heartfelt condolances go out to the family and friends of the Virginia Tech shooting victims, and to the family of the man who commited these acts. Its easy to forget that those who commit this type of violece leave behind a legacy of sadness for their own as well.

A couple questions/comments:

polonus post:7:

… there were links between this institute and DARPA, …

What is DARPA?

polonus post:7:

… the man was under the influence of mind control (years of prescribed drugs, and without it during the weekend, …

I have also heard that antidepressants were involved, as is often the case in these types of tragedies.

polonus post:7:

… playing violent online games?), …

In World War II the US Army adopted the use of silhouette targets, instead of bulls eye targets, for rifle training. The reason was to get the soldiers past the natural human hesitation of killing another human being.

People don’t want to admit it but for some individuals video games can have the same effect.

polonus post:7:

… would not surprise me as this will be used as a form of attack on the Second Amendment.

The attacks have already begun. Calls for confiscation of guns (which, in England and Australia, has had the opposite of the intended efect), calls for 1 gun purchase per month laws (which Virginia already has), etc. But the fact is evil, violence, and mental illness exist independent of man’s laws. We already have laws against murder - if everyone would simply abide by that we wouldn’t need to worry about inanimate objects whether they be guns, knives, blunt objects or something else.

system · 2007-04-21T13:38:25.000Z

http://www.darpa.gov/
i play computer and video games…and to me its only a game but to some it can become reality :

Lisandro · 2007-04-21T15:12:03.000Z

Let’s see if I can explain myself:

The incident is terrible. It’s a pity, deeply sad, sorry. My condolences to the victims’ parents and relatives.
I want to bring up a reflexion. Like old Pope John II asked, which kind of society are we living? A society that could in one century makes two world wars, create the power to autodestruction, fight and kill, do not protect the weak, the children, the poor, etc., couldn’t we help with a little drop in the ocean and try to make the world better: maybe if we help to make better the people around us, we can contribute to the rest of the world. Talking seriously: I think the society has to find some answers and we must feel ourselves something ‘guilty’ to these things. Otherwise, life goes on, nobody changes nothing, thinks nothing… nothing is related to us, nothing has nothing to teach us. I’m not scared to think that I, myself, need to do something to avoid this sad things to happen. The guilty is not only the mad man.

It’s my 0.02. Hope it does not bring fire to this thread and the avast forums.

system · 2007-04-21T16:02:38.000Z

Polonus and mauserme, yes it is true that antidepressants were involved. Please remember that this man was a troubled soul. He was diagnosed with his problem before he went on doctor prescribed medication. Drugs cannot cure every problem, and I doubt it made this young man’s problems worse. Many people with mental illness refuse to stay on their medication, and our society has not shown much empathy towards solving their problems.

The three most important women in my life (mother, significant other, and best friend) are taking antidepressants and are much better for it. Sadly, I also have a younger brother living on the street in Georgia because he refuses to take medication for his problems. We have not heard from him in over a year now and are quite concerned about him.

I also am deeply saddened by the deaths at VT. My thoughts and heart-felt sorrow go out to all involved, including the family of the man that caused this catastrophe.

Our society once again has a lot of collective thinking to do.

If you have some time, here is a excellent blog by a family that is dealing with mental illness on an ongoing basis that is well worth bookmarking: mindriddles.blogspot.com

Mac · 2007-04-21T16:06:35.000Z

It really is terrible what happened. :-[ Technical says it best:

Tech post:16:

I think the society has to find some answers and we must feel ourselves something ‘guilty’ to these things. Otherwise, life goes on, nobody changes nothing, thinks nothing… nothing is related to us, nothing has nothing to teach us. I’m not scared to think that I, myself, need to do something to avoid this sad things to happen. The guilty is not only the mad man.

This hits home with me as it was not too long ago I was in college :-\

system · 2007-04-21T16:23:08.000Z

My heart goes out to those who have suffered through this ordeal.

I would also like to say that antidepressants and antipsychotics should not be demonized in my opinion. I have 3 friends who have to take anti depressants and antipsychotics like Haldol, Geodon, Zyprexa and Zoloft. They could NOT function without them. They will literally become violent/aggressive/paranoid WITHOUT them. Then they will just cease to function. WITH the meds they got their degrees in college, play in their bands and have somewhat normal relationships. Is psychiatry perfect? No way! Many things need to be rethought, but for many people that is all they have to function. Just remember that.

system · 2007-04-21T16:31:58.000Z

Negeltu post:19:

I would also like to say that antidepressants and antipsychotics should not be demonized in my opinion.

I did not mean to imply they do.

What I’ve seen, in my non-medical/unqualified to diagnose anything capacity, is that sometimes the drugs seem to remove inhibitions that people normally posses.

I have a friend who went bankrupt after going on antidepressants - he seemed to believe he couldn’t fail at anything, even in some terrible business decisions that everyone around him recognized could not work. He was always an over confident person before the drugs, but to the point of ruin after going on the medication.

I think in some people if there is a strong tendency toward a particular attribute, be it self-confidence or violence, antidepressants can remove the control of that tendency. And I have heard that they may have contributed to other, similar acts.

Just my opinion, though …

2Tech - In a small way isn’t that part of why we’re on this forum? Making things better in whatever way we can. But it does need to be broader than just this.

Lisandro · 2007-04-21T17:46:14.000Z

mauserme post:20:

2Tech - In a small way isn’t that part of why we’re on this forum? Making things better in whatever way we can.

Fully agree… so this is why we’re here…

mauserme post:20:

But it does need to be broader than just this.

Sure… that is why I want the others think about what happened and, maybe, discover that need to be better in some way: compasion, friendship, giving time and love to the others, help, forgive!, etc. etc.

system · 2007-04-21T21:07:41.000Z

Quote from mauserme:
“I have a friend who went bankrupt after going on antidepressants - he seemed to believe he couldn’t fail at anything, even in some terrible business decisions that everyone around him recognized could not work. He was always an over confident person before the drugs, but to the point of ruin after going on the medication.”

mauserme: What you have described is a person who is “bi-polar” which used to be called manic-depressive. He needed the antidepressant for the depressive state and he should have been taking something for the manic portion also. Many people when they are manic believe they are a god. If someone feels they “couldn’t fail at anything” why would they want to take a drug to stop that feeling. Manic people are very prone to not wanting to take their prescribed medications. Surprisingly, the medication they often need isn’t even a drug, it is lithium salt.

polonus · 2007-04-21T22:36:49.000Z

Hi GeneJ.

I fully agree with you that some people need prescribed drugs, and also should be taken off when they show averse reactions. But drugs can never be a solution for things that could be altered in another way.
In how many cases this is entered as an easy way out of a social or an emotional problem. To be on drugs for years and years can make people really inert, rob them of their emotions, and turn them into hopeless zombies.
Off course when the alternative forms no solution, I agree with you. But do not think that this is candy, the averse effects can be gruesome as well or when someone goes “berserk” because of this or take their own lives…the cause is often missed. It is a two-sided sword and that is what it is, and it just depends what side cuts deepest.

polonus

Marc57 · 2007-04-22T00:58:53.000Z

I think the school has to take some responsibility in this, After the first shooting they should have been on lockdown and had extra officers on patrol until the killer was found. (just my opinion)

system · 2007-04-22T05:59:57.000Z

Polonus: Modern drugs for depression do not turn people into “zombies”. They let them lead normal lives. Some drugs for schizophrenia do have bad side effects, but compared to the disease untreated, most people are far better off on the medication as prescribed. The blog I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, will show how these drugs have affected one young man and his family.

No one has suggested that the young student at VT was on any of those schizophrenia meds.

You might wish to Google the side effects of Zoloft or Prozac for the specific side effects of these two antidepressant drugs.

Keep up the good fight against malware, I enjoy reading your posts.

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