Windows XP problem with system resources

General Topics
21

Vlk is not around it seems and I don’t know much about resource leaking…

If I should say something, I would probably:

  1. like to see the snapshot of the Task Manager (similar to the one on the previous page of this thread) with avast! when the problems are present - preferably at the moment you notice that the text is disappearing or something like that. Or even better - do a few snapshots (lets say every hour) until the problem appears. Then check if any number is constantly rising… maybe some of the columns (handles, USER objects, GDI objects, VM size) would have some useful info…

  2. try various options to see if they have any effect on the problem. For example, would disabling the Standard Shield help? Or does it really leak even if you boot the computer and don’t touch it for the next few hours - no apps running (net etc.)?

Maybe it has already been tried, but I didn’t see such info in this thread…

22

igor,

I have attached a snapshot with avast running a while back. I don’t have any others now since I uninstalled avast for the time being (when I have free time I might try again). This snapshot was taken with only essential programs running and eventually after 5 hours, the problems began. Usually by that time, I can’t do anything with the computer like taking a snapshot. :o

I did try running avast with only two processes (email and standard sheild). Also, I stopped the system server process for updating avast (aswUpdSv.exe) which did add about 1 to 2 hours of uptime for me. ::slight_smile:

The problems occurred with or without using the computer. I could leave it alone for 5 hours, come back to it, and the screen would be full of error messages and disappearing text, etc. ???

Maybe Taikonaut could shed some light on these questions of yours. Taikonaut did seem to do a lot of different tests that I didn’t. :-\

23

Come back Vlk! (joke) How is your trip?
Talking seriously now, Igor, is there any way to log the error and not just take a snapshot… As bbfi said, the user (me included!) cannot take a snapshot on a freezed system… I see Windows Events but I cannot discover anything why my system freezes sometimes… :stuck_out_tongue:

24

;D
Chill out Technical, I’m not DEAD!!!

25

Hello everyone! I’ve been reading and re-reading this thread ever since it started last month and I think bbfi may’ve found the cause of his problem in his very first post when he asked if it could be Microsoft’s updates and patches. Let me explain…

bbfi’s computer stats are similar to mine. I’ve also got
512mb ram and my processor’s a Pentium 4 at 1.8 ghz.
I’m also running XP home.

Avast is a GREAT antivirus, but yes, it does use a lot of memory. If I boot up and just let my computer sit for a while and then check task manager, avast is using between 18,000k and 22,000k of memory. McAfee 7 and Norton 2003 each use between 7,000k and 8,000k of ram and AVG-6 Free uses around 1,500k. BIG DIFFERENCE! However, 512mb ram is more than enough for avast and other applications. I checked all of these with clean installs of XP and I do not have more than one antivirus on my computer.

With Windows Updates, my computer will slow to a crawl (with avast) after 3 to 4 hours. Rebooting solves the problem for another 3 to 4 hours. Cycle repeats. If I uninstall avast and use any of the other antivirus programs mentioned, no problem.

Now, if I do a clean install of XP and DO NOT install any Windows Updates, there is no problem with using avast.
I do not believe avast is the cause of any problem. Rather, it could be a trigger with something in one or more of the Windows Updates.

I’ve said this repeatedly in other threads – several computer companies (HP and Dell especially) are ‘unofficially’ telling customers with problems not to install Windows Updates. There are many people who have slower computers and less ram but have no problems using avast and having Windows Updates. This is what is so perplexing. Just read the online forums and you’ll find complaint after complaint about computer performance and Windows Updates. Some computers work with them, some don’t and there’s no concrete reason discovered yet why this is so. bbfi and I may be some of the ‘chosen’ whose machines simply don’t like Windows Updates.

I make a radical suggestion to bbfi to try and solve the problem once and for all. Wipe your hard drive, reformat and do a clean install of XP. TURN OFF WINDOWS UPDATES, install avast and see what happens. If the problem persists, then it’s possible bbfi’s computer just doesn’t like avast. I know of several cases where a computer just won’t work with some programs or software, regardless of how good they are.

Personally, I think avast is fabulous and the avast team is superb. And, if my computer works with avast better without Windows Updates, then they go – not avast.

Dave

26

Technical: I don’t know what to log… if the system behaves strangely, and we don’t know why - what information should we log? There is no apparent error…
Therefore, I was suggesting to take snapshot of the values e.g. every hour. If some of the number would be continuously rising (and it will not be IE cache, for example :)) - then we found something suspicious.

Dave: Are you looking at the correct column when checking the occupied memory? You should look at “Virtual Memory Size”, not “Memory Usage”.
As for the Windows updates - while it would be nice to find the true reason, not installing the updates is not a solution… remember the Blaster worm?

27

Igor – I do recognize the importance of security. What I was trying to convey to bbfi was simply a test to see if Windows Updates were causing the problem. Sorry if it didn’t come out that way. I don’t want anyone’s computer at risk.

As for the columns to look at – you might be able to help me. All I see with Task Manager under “Processes” are columns for Image Name, User Name, CPU and Mem Usage. There is no column for Virtual Memory Size. What do I need to check or adjust in order to see that?

Thanks,
Dave

28

I’m happy to know this ;D
But Vlk, when you have some time, please try to look around memory leakages and system resources threads. They are too complicated for ‘common’ users… We stay shooting in the dark without technical knowleage :wink:

Dave, I fully agree with you. Perhaps my last troubles are due to Windows Update. Who knows… It takes a lot of time to discover.

Igor: I know what to log: the increase of memory consume… (values that continuous rise or the suspicious things you talk about). Snapshots are quite difficult, requires user answers all the time. Windows make dump files (memory and drivers troubles I suppose) but they are ‘binaries’ with nonsense information for common users. Is there a way to log memory useage?

29

Igor – I found my way around and now have a column for virtual memory size. I’ll do some experiments over the weekend.

Technical – I’m with you! It takes a lot of time to try and figure out whether Windows Updates are causing problems on a particular system. Honestly, I can’t tell you how many hours I’ve spent on reformatting and reinstalling XP to make sure there’s no ‘garbage’ left to try and discover some answers.

I’m off to work now and will do some digging over the next two days. I’ll post again if I find anything out.

Thanks to all. We learn something new, exchange ideas and thoughts. That’s good!

Dave

30

Well, in my case the leak happened only in Kernel Memory Paged Pool (Memory->Pool Paged Bytes in PerfMon) and none of the processes showed any sign of leaking. I’ll post also a pic of what pool i’m just talking about, I mean MS calls the same type of memory with different names in different places (VM and Private bytes etc.).

When it comes to memory logging, then at least WinXP Pro has quite nice tools for that. You should look at Control Panel → Administrative Tools → Performance (or Run:“perfmon”) from there you can set it to log hundreds of things.

31

Taikonaut, why do you think the paged pool is being leaked? 37MB sounds like a very reasonable value to me… Just to make things little clearer: the paged pool, together with the non-paged pool, is basically the memory allocated by device drivers. avast indeed has a couple of device drivers, and uses some memory from these pools, but not excessive amounts (normally less then 1 megabyte).

Dave50, I’m still lil’ confused: are you saying that

  • if you install clean XP (no SP’s) and avast, everything’s OK
  • if you install all the critical updates and SP1 on that machine (that is, just the Critical Updates, e.g. using the Windows Update tool), it starts to leak? If so, this sounds like something we should be able to simulate in our labs… BTW what’s the best way to demonstrate the leak (ie. to bring the machine down), according to your experience?

Thanks
Vlk (from Redmond :))

Vlk

32

Vlk – yes. If I clean install Windows XP and leave all Windows Updates off the computer, avast works fine and the computer performs perfectly. If I then download Windows Updates (SP1 and critical updates), the computer works fine for 3-5 hours and then it starts slowing down dramatically and eventually applications start hanging. If I uninstall avast, problem is cured. If I leave Windows Updates off, problem doesn’t happen.
There are no signs of anything wrong other than the slowdown until the application hanging errors appear.
Problem is, Vlk, this doesn’t happen on everyone’s computer. I have friends who have the same machine I do, they use avast, and have no trouble with Windows Update. This is why Dell and HP are telling some people to ignore Windows Updates – they don’t know why it happens either and rather than try to find out what’s going on, they feel ignoring the updates is the easiest solution.

Dave

33
I have friends who have the same machine I do

You mean exactly the same make or just equivalent parameters?
What machine do you have anyway? Is it a big brand computer or a little-known maker? Or even home-built puter?

Thanks
Vlk

34

Hi Vlk,

Here is some more info about my system and software I have runned in the past and now.

Hardware presently -
1 ) emachine T4150 with VC31 motherboard, Pentium 4 - 1.5 GHz, and 512mb
2 ) ATI radeon 7000 series AGP 2x/4x with 64mb video card
3 ) ATI-TV Wonder card
4 ) Brother MFC 9200C Multifunction Printer, Copier, Scanner, Fax

Software running at all times presently -
1 ) Win XP (5.1.2600) SP1
2 ) IE Shell 6.0.2800.1106
3 ) True Launch Bar 2.2.0.9 and Start Killer
4 ) MyIE2 0.8.2126 Browser
5 ) SpamPal 1.52
6 ) PopTray 3.0
7 ) Zone Alarm Firewall 3.7.211
8 ) Cacheman 5.5
9 ) SaverNow 2.4
10 ) Webshots
11 ) WinPatrol 6.0
12 ) Clipomatic
13 ) CookieWall
14 ) WordWeb
15 ) PTBSync
16 ) FinePrint 2000
17 ) BrmfRsmg.exe for Brother 9200C
18 ) Directory Opus 6.2.5.10
19 ) AVG 6.0

System Hardware in Past -
In the past I was using a NVidia video card with 32mb with the same problem occurring.

I have tried Outpost 1.0 and Sygate 5.0 and 5.1 firewalls at different times with the same problem occurring.

When I did my tests which finally showed that avast might be a trigger, I only ran the following applications -
1 ) Outpost 1.0 firewall
2 ) Avast 4.1
3 ) spamilihator
4 ) FinePrint 2000
5 ) BrmfRsmg.exe for Brother 9200C

It didn’t make any difference if I ran the minimum amount of applications or all of the above ones I use presently but with Avast instead of AVG 6.0. After 4 to 6 hours, my problems began as Dave50 explained also. For some reason Taikonaut was able to last for a few days before his problems occurred. ???

Hi Dave50,

I already did one reinstall of Win XP and tried using Avast, but I don’t remember if I did all the Microsoft updates before or after seeing the problems with using avast. And I don’t feel like doing it again. It was a real time waster for me. :stuck_out_tongue:

35

Vlk – my computer is an HP Pavilion 760N, XP home (I currently have SP1 and all critical updates installed). I’ve got 512mb ram, a Pentium-4 1.8 ghz processor. I’ve got a 120gb hard drive with 99.48gb available.

Two of my friends have the exact same machine and none of us have any unusual programs added to the computers. Two other friends have HP Pavilions, different models, one additional friend has a Dell Dimension 2100.

All are using avast and love it. Of the people who have my model machine, one works with avast and Windows Updates, the other has the slowdown problem after a few hours. The two other HP’s which are different models both have the slowdown problem if they install Windows Updates. The Dell also has the same problem.

In all cases, once the slowdown is noticed, a reboot resolves it for a few hours and then it happens again.
Like I said earlier, a clean install of XP without Windows Updates – no slowdown.

I am aware of a similar issue regarding Windows Updates and Norton 2003 and 2004, and even with
AVG-6 Free. So, I don’t think the problem is avast . For some reason, some computers have problems with the updates and others don’t. Earlier in this thread, Technical reports a problem as well but I don’t know what machine he’s using.

Dave

36

Thanks for the system info. I’ll try to get a similar machine for testing (our QA guys wanted some new metal anyway :))

So, I don't think the problem is avast .

Maybe not, but if it happens only if avast is installed we must face it. :-\

Thanks for your help
Vlk (still in MS campus)

37

Vlk – thanks for all of your help and my appreciation to the entire avast team! If you can solve this one,
Bill Gates should give you an award.

Dave

38

Thank you very much, Taikonaut ;D
Sometimes we already have the ‘thing’ in our system but just do not use it…
I’ll try to configurate the logs and see what I get.
Again, thank you. For other users, which can start Task Manager in these situations, I suggest Process Explorer from SysInternals. There is an option (column) called ‘Peak Working Set’ which stores the maximum level of resources utilization.

Today I had a ‘freeze’: after an Hibernation, Power on, 3 or 4 hours of utilization… Keyboard and monitor answers become lazy… too lazy… I shut down avast residents completely. Nothing went better… I shut down ZA, nothing… I have to restart. Now, everything ok. But I want to log the system resources to see what is going on :wink:

39

You are right, around 40MB (sorry for not stating it clearly but the pic was taken without avas!) seems to be a normal value for my configuration (as I also stated in my first post), but with avast running I have 80MB after 2 days and it keeps rising at a rate of around 1MB/h (I’m attaching a pic of this also).

I have done now some more digging and I believe that I have found the source of the leak in my comp. I used PoolTag from www.osr.com to obtain the following data (its taken after 1 day and 22 hours of uptime):


PTAG    PAG/NON   # Allocs    # Frees  Alloc-Free       Used   Used after startup
----    -------  ---------  ---------  ----------  ---------   ------------------
Strg      PAG      7247198    6896000     351198    41506880    3028912
PcNw      NON       393121       178514     214607    12321104   12319528
Gh05      PAG      7627617    7626770       847      7959984    4572296

PS I added the last column myself it's values are taken somewhere half an hour after system startup.

It would seem that the Strg is responsible for the leak. Now I did some searches and this is what i found:

[*]From pooltag.txt:

Strg - <unknown>    - Dynamic Translated strings

[*]From MS Knowledge Base Article MS KB262386, it would seem that the driver filename is mrxsmb.sys (my system has the version 5.1.2600.1143 (xpsp2.021108-1929) of that file by the way) and its a MS’s driver.
So basically it appears that avast is just somehow causing this MS driver to start leaking in my system. I’m going to try running avast’s resident providers one at a time to see which one causes it.

/edit: forgot the pic
http://www.tud.ttu.ee/~t990848/leak.jpg

40

Thanks Taikonaut for your posts. They are being very usefull to get near the problem. Please, keep reporting… :wink: